Since she was 17 years old, mxmtoon has made exquisitely catchy pop songs that capture the kind of complex and tender feelings we often keep hidden from the world. Over the years, the Oakland native and now Nashville-based artist’s unguarded self-expression has earned her a devoted global following, led to collaborations with the likes of Carly Rae Jepsen and Noah Kahan, and propelled her through an expansive career that’s also included hosting a podcast and authoring a graphic novel. 

mxmtoon has just released her highly anticipated third studio album, liminal space, out everywhere now via AWAL. 

In this interview, I spoke to mxmtoon about her creative beginnings, personal agency, feminism, and what listeners can expect from liminal space.

Header image by: Bảo Ngô

Alex Creece: Hey mxmtoon! I can’t believe I’m talking to you! Thanks so much for taking the time to chat. Can you tell us about your latest album, liminal space, and the “mess of emotions” that inspired it?

mxmtoon: I’m so glad this album is out! I think, obviously, liminal space is about liminality. For those wondering what that means, it’s about the transition period of going from point A to point B, and what’s in between.

For the last two years of my life, I’ve felt like there’s been a lot of conversations and moments where I’ve been suspended in that unknown space, and not really sure where things were going. The album is about that: expressing the kind of discomfort that sometimes comes with not having answers to anything you’re currently experiencing in life.

AC: “liminal space is an album for people struggling to understand agency, who bathe in the bittersweet and lose themselves wandering in their own endless hallway with no ending.”

Personal agency is a key theme of this album. What have you learned about agency, and what do you hope that listeners take away?

mxmtoon: That’s a great question – thank you for asking it. I think, honestly, I’m still really learning how to have personal agency in a lot of ways. A big step for me was writing this album to discuss all the ways in which maybe I don’t have personal agency, and to dissect that.

I’m having conversations with people in my life, after sharing these songs with them, to really understand how I can increase my own involvement in the decisions that I make day-to-day. I’m really asking myself: what do I want to do, and how do I make those choices?

So, I really hope that people take away the message, too, that it’s okay to not always feel like you have the reins when you’re making decisions in your life. I’m certainly a young person who is very much figuring out how to do that in an active sense. But I hope people recognise the importance of really questioning yourself, asking what is important to you, and trying to chase those decisions.

Personal agency is a tough thing to try and achieve, and I’m still figuring it out, but I hope that it inspires other people who might not feel like they have it in their lives to try and chase it, too.

AC: What was it like working with an all-female creative team on liminal space? Do you think this had an influence on the album’s direction and aesthetic?

mxmtoon: I think it totally did. I mean, so many of the stories that I’m telling on the record are directly involved with talking about gender identity in relation to my experiences. There’s so much about my relationship with my mum, and the gender roles that come with being a daughter. I’m trying to dissect things like how I’m viewed differently than my brother, or thinking about my relationship to my dad.

There’s so much in this album that specifically talks about my experiences as a woman, and so it felt important to work with collaborators who could understand exactly what I was talking about without having to contextualise it for them.

I’ve had great sessions with male collaborators before, but I’ve also had a handful of times where I’ve gone in and been like, This is the story that I want to tell. And it was a story about womanhood. A few times, I’ve been met with the questions of: “Why do you feel that way? What’s contributing to that emotion?” And then feeling like, Dude, I can’t just sit here and explain what it’s like to be a woman to you for hours. That’s not productive for anyone involved. Do that work on your own time.

So yeah, it just felt refreshing to be able to step into the room and not have to explain myself over and over and over again. I think that really benefitted the songs as a result, too.

AC: You’ve had music on the Heartstopper soundtrack, and you’ve also collaborated with Carly Rae Jepsen, Cavetown, Kero Kero Bonito and Luna Li, among others. Do you have any fun stories to share about these experiences? What have been your personal career highlights so far?

mxmtoon: Oh my gosh, I mean, I’m just so grateful to have had the opportunity to collaborate with such a wide range of talented musicians! I mean, obviously Carly Rae Jepsen is an incredible person to have gotten the opportunity to work with. I’m so grateful. I just remember FaceTiming her for the first time and being like, Oh my god, this is crazy! She’s on my phone and I’m freaking out!

Honestly, when I think about the collaborators that I’ve worked with, the thing that strikes me the most is that I’m genuinely just a fan of all of them. I feel like I’m pinching myself all the time that I get to make music, and that I also get to consider a lot of these musicians my peers now. That is just the craziest experience ever.

So yeah, my career highlight is the fact that I’m so lucky that I’ve gotten to become friends with some of the people that inspired me to even start making music in the first place.

Working with Kero Kero Bonito (KKB) was definitely a full-circle moment where I remember being 14, listening to KKB, and being like, This is so cool, I wish I could do this. And now I’ve made a song with Sarah (of KKB) and that’s really, really cool.

AC: On that note, now that you’ve reached this level of stardom, do you have any other big milestones, dreams or aspirations that you’re aiming for?

mxmtoon: I think it would be so awesome to consistently be able to go to different countries around the world and tour. In this current landscape of music, I think that one of the hardest things is the physical component of showing up and being able to have a touring business in more places than your home turf.

I’m really lucky that I’m able to tour in the USA. And I got to tour in Australia and New Zealand for the first time in 2022, and I just had the best time. I hope I can do that again. That would be so cool, and I think it’s definitely within the realm of possibility. It would be awesome to be able to come back every few years and to tour and perform, and make that consistent.

Image by: Bảo Ngô.

AC: Speaking of KKB earlier, your collab song, ‘the situation’, uses humour and sarcasm to critique the narrative of women’s worth/value being tied to their youth and appearance. How did this song come about?

mxmtoon: This is a topic that I’ve wanted to talk about for a long time. I’m also coming from the perspective of someone who was 17 years old when mxmtoon really became a career for me, and seeing how differently people begin to treat you as you get older.

For now, I’m definitely nowhere near actually being old – I’m literally 24 – but I mean, I’ve been called old by like my audience of now-17-year-olds who think that I’m ancient just because I’m in my mid-twenties. It’s kind of hilarious to see the intricacies of how I’m treated as a result of ageing.

So, I knew that I wanted to make a song about ageing, and I wanted to approach it from a more humorous perspective rather than making it morbid, which it could be very easily.

I also came across this meme on Pinterest that was just like of Patrick Bateman from American Psycho, and the text just said, “You can’t be a teenage girl forever.” And I’ve felt that way so much as I’ve gotten older, being like, Oh, I’m never going to be what people want me to be when I’m not 19! That’s such a hard thing to dissect, so I’m trying to give myself the space to talk about it while also doing it through humour.

AC: You’re known for both your poetic, confessional lyrics and your indie-pop catchiness – a very fun juxtaposition! Can you tell us what inspires your songwriting process?

mxmtoon: In terms of inspiration, I think it’s easy to try and emulate what other people are doing in their work because you can look at them and admire what they do. But for me, it’s been really important to trust the way I speak, or just bring in a diary entry and try to make a song out of that.

I find that you end up making things that feel more authentic and personal to you as a result of trusting your own voice in the first place.

AC: Some people might not know this, but you’re an amazing visual artist, a gamer and a YouTuber, as well as being an awesome singer-songwriter and musician. Where did your creative journey begin? (Also, what’s your favourite video game?!)

mxmtoon: I can answer all of those things! So, I started making music when I was 13 when it was required for a project that I was doing. But mxmtoon existed long before that. It started when I was 11 and it was a cartoon project, hence the “toon” (in case anyone is ever confused why that exists inside of my artist name).

I’ve just been a creative kid for a long time, and I used mxmtoon for my visual creative project, then it became my gamer tag, and then it became my music name, and it just kind of evolved into this ever-encompassing thing.

I think my favourite video game is probably Persona 5, which is a JRPG that’s over 180 hours long. I love it!

AC: What does representation in the music industry mean to you as an openly bisexual artist and mixed-race woman of colour?

mxmtoon: I think representation is so exciting. I vividly remember a time when I was working in the bedroom pop scene more heavily – at the beginnings of my career, really. I had so many conversations about my identity: coming into being bisexual, unpacking and expressing my sexuality to a large audience of people, and talking about how that also relates to my racial identity.

But then I also remember feeling really alone in hosting a lot of those conversations and putting myself in these positions where I had to be a voice for a lot of people.

I still feel so lucky that I can be representative of many different experiences, but I think it’s so refreshing to look at the landscape of who is in the music industry now and see so many other forms of representation for different identities popping up and staying. I think that that’s wonderful because, honestly, we can each only speak for our own experiences. As much as we can offer representation, there are so many other stories out there ready to be heard, too.

We need to have a diverse set of individuals that are up on stage talking about the diverse set of stories that exist all over the world. So, I think it means a lot just to see so many people that I can resonate with. But I think it’s also very true, too, that we still have a long way to go in making sure that there is consistent representation for all forms of identity across the board.

AC: You’ve been in the industry since you were 17 years old. Do you have any words of wisdom for up-and-coming young musicians and artists?

mxmtoon: Don’t be afraid to say no. There were a lot of moments where I felt like I owed it to everyone around me to say yes to every single thing. I think it’s easy as a young person, especially, to feel like you just burn yourself into the ground because you’re trying to do everything that everybody wants you to.

We’re seeing such great examples of artists standing up for themselves and trying to balance their personhood with their artistry. Chappell Roan is someone that I think of immediately as someone who is setting boundaries for themselves.

I think that we’ve gotten to this point where the parasocial relationships of artists with their audiences can verge into dangerous territory where, you know, listeners feel so much agency over deciding what artists are like, or what they’re entitled to from an artist.

I think it’s important for people of all walks of life, whether you’re an artist or a listener, to be conscious of protecting their individuality amid everything else, including our online presences and activities. So, don’t be afraid to say no and set those boundaries.

AC: Out of your own body of work, do you have a favourite song?

mxmtoon: For a long time, ‘fever dream’ was my favourite song that I’d ever written. But now I think that it might be dethroned by ‘rain’, which is on liminal space. Because it’s fresher, maybe!

AC: Lastly, do you have any fun facts about yourself that you’d like to share?

mxmtoon: Oh my, I don’t know! Probably… I’m just a way bigger nerd than I think people give me credit for. Like, you can safely assume that I’m the same person I when I was 17, just reading webcomics and going into Wikipedia rabbit holes for various topics, and stuff like that.

So, maybe my fun fact is that I’m more chronically online than even I would like to admit to myself, or have admitted in the past!

Album artwork by: KangHee Kim.

liminal space is out everywhere now via AWAL.